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With the change in philosophy at Arkansas under Bielema, is there is legitimate passing offense in the SEC West? It seem that Bama might be the closest, but they are still most definitely a run first offense that hasn't demonstrated the ability to win a game when the run game wasn't effective. Being the only spread team in the SEC West puts us in a great position because most teams will not have prepared for any teams similar to us and our defense basically only has to prepare for one type of offense. Thoughts? Counters?
Auburn and Ole Miss are both spread tempo teams. Freeze, Malzahn and Sumlin have pretty similar offensive philosophies.
Email: AubreyBloom at gmail Follow On Twitter: Twitter.com/AubreyBloom247
Yeah they're similar as far as tempo, but they can't pass very well. Maybe Auburn changes under Malzahn, but both Auburn and Ole Miss seem like more read-option/playaction oriented teams to me. Plus I feel pretty good about our chances if Ole Miss is relying on Bo Wallace to beat us with his arm.
Well, I'm not saying that they're particularly good offenses at the moment, but A&M certainly has to practice defending multiple offenses, and other teams will certainly have faced spread offenses because Auburn and Ole Miss will effectively be running the same offense. It's not exactly the same offense because they've all adapted it to their personnel, but the scheme is the same.
Arkansas State threw for over 3,300 yards last year and Cam Newton threw for over 2,800 yards under Malzahn at Auburn. You have to play with what you've got though, and right now Freeze has Bo Wallace.
Okay. I agree with you. I guess my point was that there are no passing offenses that scare you in the SEC West with Auburn still a question mark. This allows us to focus on developing a front 7 for stopping the run with bigger guys who might not be as good in space. Cam Newton is a freak. I don't see another guy like that waiting in the wings at Auburn.
Yes, Texas A&M.
Good call. I forgot about them.
No Aubrey, the schemes are not the same. No where near.
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From IH-35 to IH-10... what then?
^This....and I will raise your call and bet that there is no offense like ours anymore at all in the SEC, period. Sumlin's spread is so unique considering we also have such a dynamic running threat at QB in Manziel. No other spread O in the nation has the run game at RB and QB that the Ags have this coming season. Every team we play will have one hell of a time game planning against our offense. Damn near impossible when you also factor in the sheer size we will have at WR and TE with Evans, RSJ, Clear and Ja'Quay.
I thought the OP was speaking on general multi-season trend terms, not this specific A&M team this specific season. If that's the question then no, obviously nobody in the SEC West has an offense like A&M's.
Actually Aubrey, I bet the OP was speaking to the coaching philosophies so that does mean long-term, so you are.prob right. However, I live in the present, and presently, there is no O even close to ours in the SEC over the next 2 years, and I will go as far as to say that there is no spread O in the nation as dynamic as Sumlin's considering the passing and running capabilities of this offensive personnel. Sumlin has adapted his scheme to fit the talent, and our talen is straight up sick. This is gonna be one hell of a ride.
I was talking more philosophy, but also execution of that philosophy. We don't know much about how Malzahn's offense will look in the SEC without Cam Newton. Freeze may have a similar philosophy, but it is poorly executed at this time and doesn't pose much of a passing threat. I was mostly trying to get a discussion started on whether this offensive homogeneity in the SECw gives us an advantage at least next season and possibly further on.
Right, so schematically and principally, A&M's offense is similar to both Auburn and Ole Miss. If they all had the same people with the same skills, the offenses would be very similar.
Ole Miss was actually fifth in both passing and rushing in the SEC last season, and they were fifth in total offense. You could make a pretty fair case that they were the third best offense in the SEC West last season behind A&M and Alabama. That's even with Bo Wallace and a team that was absolutely horrible the year before. Ole Miss just doesn't have the horses that A&M does on the offensive side of the ball, but from a long term scheme and philosophy standpoint, Freese's offense is essentially the same as Sumlin's. In 2011 at Arkansas State, Freeze's team was in the top 25 in the country in total offense, and 15th in the country in passing.
So, Freeze: 2012 (Ole Miss): Passing was 59% of the offense, 2011 (Arkansas State): 69% of the offense
Now, for Malzahn, in 2009 (the year he got to Auburn and didn't have Cam Newton), the Tigers finished second in the SEC in total offense, and they were 16th in the country, passing for over 3,000 yards and rushing for 2,400 yards. That's with Chris Todd at quarterback. Then he takes over for Freeze at Arkansas State, runs the same system, they finish in the top 25 in the country on offense as well.
It's hard to look at 2011 for Auburn because Chizik essentially forced Malzahn to change his scheme because he thought it put too much pressure on their defense, and you've eliminated 2010 because of Cam Newton.
So Malzahn: 2012 (Arkansas State): 56% of the offense, 2009 (Auburn): 54% of the offense
Sumlin's offense this year led the SEC in both passing and rushing, passing for... wait for it... 56.6% of their offense.
So, if the debate isn't about the quality of the offense, but just the philosophies therein, I'd say that saying Auburn, Ole Miss, and A&M all run the same system is pretty fair. Also, it's a hard debate to have if you're eliminating 2010 Auburn because of Cam Newton, saying that we don't know what Malzahn's SEC offense will look like without him, but you're allowing 2012 Texas A&M with Johnny Manziel, we don't really know what Sumlin's SEC offense will look like without him. I certainly don't think it will have the quarterback rushing for 1,400 yards.
Now all of that said, I do agree that A&M's philosophy gives them an advantage next season because even though Auburn and Ole Miss will be running it, neither of them have the offensive weapons that A&M does. Sort of like Oklahoma preparing for Manziel by using Trevor Knight on scout team, you might as well just prepare to do what you do if you're going to work against a crappy version of the real thing.
Also, I didn't really mean all that to sound overly contrarian or condescending which it does on a re-read, I think it's a fun conversation and a good debate, just bringing some defense of my stance.
Dude... if you think Sherman's philosophies and Malzahn's are even remotely similar, then it's like people trying to debate in two different languages.
I agree that it isn't really fair from a philosophical standpoint to include Manziel and not Newton. I did it because I was trying to project the effects of the offensive landscape of the SEC at least into next season where we will have Manziel, and they will not have Newton.
I didn't know that about Chris Todd at Auburn. It definitely makes the 2010 Auburn season look like less of a flash in the pan, and much more similar to us offensively.
From a stats standpoint Ole Miss looks like a good offense, but they didn't really seem to pass the eyeball test when it came to offensive prowess in big games.
Remember though, Ole Miss recruited some stud WRs this year so their offense will only be getting better.
Another huge difference between A&M and those two right now is the offensive line. Having maybe the best o-line in the country will make any offense look good, and certainly it helped jump start A&M's offense in the SEC. Like I said and as you guys have mentioned, there's certainly no doubt that A&M's offense is just better than those two right now.
Proverbs 10:4 (NIV)
Lazy hands make for poverty,
but diligent hands bring wealth.
Picking up a few things from someone doesn't mean you've changed the core of your system Sherman's two minute offense was certainly a spread, and they worked in some zone read stuff, even experimenting with the wildcat, but Sherman's core system was still a pro style offense. Absolutely nothing like what Malzahn has done most of the time.
Now, Malzahn's tempo spread may be more like Urban Meyer's, but it's still part of the spread system of offenses, and, more important to this conversation and my only original point, it still relies heavily on the passing game. I don't even think that's really debatable.
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